NotesTranscript

Notes

Family life and career choices

Mon, 29 Jun 26

Courtship and the “Proposal”

• Grandpa flew from Canada to Paraguay on a one-year open ticket to see if Grandma was still available
  • Landed ~15-18km from her home, arrived at her place on the 21st
  • Grandma turned 21 on the 23rd; Grandpa had just turned 23
• Grandma had another boyfriend (Johan) at the time
  • A mutual friend lied to Grandpa when asked, saying she had no boyfriend
  • The other guy had arranged this, hoping Grandpa wouldn’t come back
  • Grandpa only found out the full story later
• They dated every night for three weeks
  • Grandpa felt uneasy the first week: Grandma wasn’t the same person he’d known, and they’d been apart two years
• No formal proposal: Grandma said “I’m ready to get married” and Grandpa said “let’s do it”
• Engagement party held at Grandma’s parents’ place, around September 5th

The Wedding

• Church required Grandpa to get a letter from King Road Church (Abbotsford) confirming he was in good standing
  • Took a couple of weeks to arrive, which delayed all wedding planning
• Wedding held October 18th, on the farm in Paraguay
  • Planned entirely by Grandma’s parents and the neighborhood community
  • Food made collectively; no formal wedding party
• Grandma was told to wear her baptism dress, not the pink dress Grandpa had brought from Abbotsford
  • “It destroyed my whole day. I couldn’t even be happy.”
  • The pink dress fit her perfectly; she had weighed 110 lbs
• Wedding was recorded and sent to Canada, but Grandpa’s brother threw everything away
  • No photos survived; nobody had a proper camera

Moving to Canada and Early Family Life

• Left Paraguay in February, six months after the wedding
  • Grandma was six months pregnant with Uncle Eric on arrival
• Settled in Abbotsford: first two weeks with Grandpa’s parents, then a rented basement (two months), then Vancouver (seven months), then back to Abbotsford for work
• Grandpa had worked at an industrial cotton and peanut processing complex in Paraguay before leaving
• In Vancouver, Grandma spoke no English and found a Low German-speaking doctor at Burnaby Hospital
  • Had a medical procedure (amniotic fluid removal) with no explanation of what was happening
  • Took the bus alone with a friend; went home the same day
• Uncle Eric born at Burnaby Hospital; Mom born 13 months later, also at Burnaby Hospital
  • Grandpa and his older sister are only 11 months apart

Transcript

Speaker AIf you come in.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AAnd then Eric would go in and it affect his marriage, his family life.

Speaker BYeah, right. That makes sense. Oh, for sure. And that's the thing. Grandpa is like, I don't think it's for Chris and I to say for them what they're gonna do for Korea. They're still pretty young. I honestly just want them to be able to live. And the way that our world and economy works is. It's so unpredictable.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BI don't know what. What it. How it's expensive. It will be for them to live. So many people we know have family living with them. Their kids live with them or they live with their parents or whatever. Right.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CI wanted my boys to come with me in construction business, but they looked at me and they said, dad, the way. The way you work in that weather, outside all time, we don't. We don't want to go through what you're going through. So. Okay. It shows different, you know?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CThe mic on the computer, that surprised me. And then on 2006, Claire came up to me and he said, I would like to go into the rcmp.

Speaker AYou have told him that many times already.

Speaker BOkay. I have a question for you then. Are you ready? And maybe Grandma, she can help too. I want to know how you proposed to Grandma. Oh, do you remember how you proposed to Grandma?

Speaker CYeah.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CProposals.

Speaker AThere was no proposing.

Speaker BThere was no proposing. So how did you tell her you wanted to marry her? Did you? Well, you're married to me now.

Speaker CThat was. Was date. It was like this. We were dating, okay. Three weeks in a row. We have dated every night. And one night she said to me, I am ready to get married. So I said, let's do it. Yeah. Johan, come on, admit it.

Speaker BOkay. What do you remember, Grandma?

Speaker CI know. I remember. I remember she said, I'm ready to get married. I said, let's do it.

Speaker BSo you guys were talking about it,

Speaker Athough, like, should we almost split up before that?

Speaker BHow come? Or how'd that go?

Speaker CShe had another boyfriend but was interfering.

Speaker BOh, really? Did. And Grandpa, did you know the other guy?

Speaker CI know the other guy very well, but I. I found us all out later.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CHad I known at the moment there, I think I would. I would have walked away.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CBut I found it all out later. But was all complete.

Speaker ABut we always had the. We made it very clear to each other.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AThat if he would come back, he would be not in the picture.

Speaker BOkay. And so this was. So you guys were dating for three weeks. Was that together? No, there Was a part, but. Oh, with grandpa.

Speaker AWith grandpa.

Speaker BAnd he was in Paraguay with you?

Speaker AYeah. Yeah.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker ABut he came to our place. Oh, it was an awful time for me. Oh, it was terrible. Just is terrible.

Speaker CHad I known what I know now.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CI think I would. I would have walked away right away.

Speaker BReally? How come? Because of this other guy?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CWell, I didn't know that she was dating another guy, but because.

Speaker BWere you in Canada?

Speaker ANo.

Speaker BYou were just there. Okay.

Speaker AHe was here, I was here.

Speaker BOh, Grandpa was in Canada.

Speaker CI was here and I. I flew back to Paraguay to see if he was still available.

Speaker BAnd so then you started dating with her for like three weeks while she was. But you were trying to figure out do I go with John or this other guy. Yeah, but you. You probably did you just have a hard time saying no to grandpa because he flew all the way back to Paraguay to see you. I get that. Yeah.

Speaker CWell that was also.

Speaker AAnd my mom and dad really like

Speaker CSee my dad, her dad always thought three and thought I was a king.

Speaker AYeah. He treated him with three spots.

Speaker CHer dad and I, we knew each other from before a very long time already.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CWhere I was working, he always came there and visit with me, you know?

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CSo when I came back here and he came when he found out that he. He acted like a. The clean kid from P. Right.

Speaker BOkay, so you already had had that with him.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BOkay, so what dating for. For three weeks. You.

Speaker CYeah, when I met grandma and I remember precisely the word that I said.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CI told her, I'm here for two weeks. You want to stay around for two weeks?

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CYou can think about it.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CI didn't tell her I had a one year open ticket. It was like this. When I landed. I landed about 15km, 18km away from her where she lived. Okay. I landed with a small plane and there came was a guy right away I knew from before.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CAnd he knew grandma very well too. I pulled him to side.

Speaker AWe were together with him. He came to visit me and my friend on Sunday night and we talked about this.

Speaker BYou and grandpa did.

Speaker ANo, this other guy.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker AMy friend and his. The other guy too that grandpa talked to. And so we always had. They knew all knew if he would all of a sudden come. I don't know. We had that feeling.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AThat he would all of a sudden.

Speaker CSo anyways, so I pulled him to side see what my. My plan was if I would get there and I could find out right away if she had a steady boyfriend, I was going to turn around right there and walk back and claim that nobody would have seen me because you

Speaker Bhad a ticket already to go.

Speaker COh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I had the. I bought her a return ticket.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CLike one year, an open ticket. I could come back whenever I want.

Speaker BOkay, that's cool. Okay.

Speaker CSo I pulled him to the side and I asked him, do you know Nettie Duke? Does she have a boyfriend? No, I don't.

Speaker BOh, but so your friend didn't know.

Speaker AOh, he knew.

Speaker BOh, he knew.

Speaker ASo yours over over at our place on Sunday night.

Speaker CI guess he lied then. To me.

Speaker BHe. Your friend lied to you?

Speaker CHe must have lied to me.

Speaker AHe knew.

Speaker BWait, so then he must have been. I wonder why. Why would he lie to you about that?

Speaker ABecause the discussion was that we had with the other guy.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AWas if he all of his son. Grandpa should come back. If somebody. If he would ask him. Anybody. If I had a boyfriend, that would be. No.

Speaker BWow. So this other guy was okay?

Speaker AHe was, but wasn't okay.

Speaker BOkay, so he was maybe hoping grandpa wouldn't come back.

Speaker AYeah. And so was I. Yeah.

Speaker BIt was gonna be complicated.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BYeah, it was.

Speaker AShe.

Speaker CShe should have told me. Right, right. Right at the spot. I have a full time boyfriend. I would have quiet walked away.

Speaker BYeah. And just let it go. Yeah. But that didn't happen. Now here we are today.

Speaker ANot a deal.

Speaker BSo, grandpa, you. You didn't exactly propose to grandma. You're. You're saying grandma was like, I'm ready to get married?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BYeah. And so then. So then what happened?

Speaker CDid you got engaged and we got engaged and we were. Now we want to get married.

Speaker BAnd so how did you get engaged?

Speaker CWell, yeah, we had engagement on Sunday.

Speaker AYeah, we were like.

Speaker CWe had on Sunday a bunch of people came together. Engagement party.

Speaker BOh, it's in a party?

Speaker CYeah, at her. Her parents place. Okay. We had people come, invited, coming over. You know, we had sort of like a.

Speaker BA happy party.

Speaker CI call it engagement party, you know.

Speaker BSo what did you do? Did you have some food, you had some family?

Speaker CYeah.

Speaker BDo you remember it?

Speaker ALike what it was like, sort of. Remember what?

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker ANot really. No.

Speaker BHow old were you guys?

Speaker CWell, I had just turned 23 and she had just. She. She turned. I came there on a. On the 20th. I landed them on the 21st. I landed at their place.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CAnd on the 23rd, she turned 21.

Speaker BSo you were turning 21?

Speaker AYeah, but so young and so immature.

Speaker BRight?

Speaker CYou think that we were not immature,

Speaker Abut at that time. Ye. When you think of it, yes.

Speaker BOh, you're just trying to figure out life and how to live it, right?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CWell, the first week when we were dating, every night I had. I was thrown around with this in my mind, maybe I could leave. I did not feel comfortable. I felt it on her, the way she was talking. I did not feel comfortable because of grandma.

Speaker BAre you sure? And it was. Wasn't because you were back.

Speaker CI could feel it. We were not like this. We were like this.

Speaker BCuz you guys were apart for so long.

Speaker CSo long.

Speaker AShe.

Speaker CShe was. She was not the girlfriend that I knew from before.

Speaker BOkay, Right. Cuz people change.

Speaker ARight?

Speaker BAnd you guys weren't together for a while. That makes sense.

Speaker AFor two years.

Speaker BYeah. So you're almost having to catch up at the same time it's being like, well, maybe do I want to marry you?

Speaker CAnd then for me, it was also. I had been out in the world. I. I had tasted something totally different from Paraguay, you know, so, yeah, it was. It was very, very weird, you know, so. But hey, we. We did it. We made it. We did it.

Speaker BSo then. So you. You got engaged and had your party, then a few days later you fly back to Canada.

Speaker ANo, no, no, no, no.

Speaker CI got married there.

Speaker BOh, you got married.

Speaker CNow listen to this. What I'm going to say here. Then we went to a pastor to get us married. And those churches, they have such a Pharisee and Pharisee rule. If you're not baptized, we don't baptize you. We don't marry you.

Speaker BYou have to be baptized to be married. So were you baptized?

Speaker CBut I was a member of King Road Church here in King Road. I was a member there already. I had to write now a letter to the King Road and ask for a letter to let me know so the pastor won't know if I was in good standing with the church.

Speaker BOh, okay. Okay.

Speaker CSo now we have to wa. It took a couple of weeks before I had the letter. Right.

Speaker BBefore you had the letter.

Speaker CThat's when we start planning the wedding, you know?

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CThat's why I ended up married on October 18th. And then we got engaged September 5th, I think.

Speaker AOkay, so we have to wait.

Speaker CWe couldn't plan any wedding because we don't know what. I have to wait for that letter. And then we went to the pastor, showed him the letter. Okay, now we'll marry you.

Speaker BOkay, cool.

Speaker CThat's how it was.

Speaker BYeah. So then. So what was it like to plan your wedding? What was that like?

Speaker CHer mom and dad planned the wedding.

Speaker BYou know, white people and so your parents planted.

Speaker AYeah, that. With the whole. With the whole neighborhood.

Speaker BThe neighborhood, yes.

Speaker AThey made the food. They made all together. They brought the food together.

Speaker CWe had the wedding on the farm there.

Speaker AWow.

Speaker BSo what was that like? Did you like the idea that everyone else was planning this wedding for you?

Speaker AWe didn't know it better.

Speaker BOh, that's just how it was.

Speaker AYeah. Yeah.

Speaker BDid that make you feel excited?

Speaker ANo. No, no.

Speaker BWhat were you feeling?

Speaker AMy dad. I wanted to wear the dress that dad brought. Grandpa brought along.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker ATo be married.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AAnd my dad says no.

Speaker BWhat?

Speaker AYou are putting on your baptism dress.

Speaker BYour baptism?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CThose are such a Pharisee rules, you know.

Speaker AReally?

Speaker CThe whole, like, so mad. Those churches there. Those churches there. Nobody could get married unless you were baptized.

Speaker AReally?

Speaker CThat's a Pharisee.

Speaker AAnd you had to be married in your baptism dress.

Speaker BThat was the rule.

Speaker AThose were the rules.

Speaker CYeah.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CJust like Pharisees. Everything was my rule. Everything had to be every.

Speaker AStupid rules, you know, it just made me. It destroyed my whole day. I couldn't even be happy.

Speaker CSee, what happened. See, what happened is just before I went to South America, I went into a store in Abbotsford.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CAnd there was a real nice wedding dress.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker CI think that would fit her.

Speaker AA nice pink one with a skirt all poofy. Oh, beautiful.

Speaker CAnd it fit her like a snug.

Speaker AYeah, it fit me so nice because I was so thin when you said you weighed 110 pounds. Yeah, that's how much I weighed when I was six months pregnant with Uncle Eric.

Speaker BWhat?

Speaker AWhen we came to Canada, I was 110 pounds.

Speaker BYou were so petite.

Speaker AYeah, yeah, I know. Uncle Eric said to me, why are you so thin?

Speaker BBecause he saw the photos and stuff.

Speaker AYeah. While he was here, when he came to Canada. Yeah. Your brother. Yeah.

Speaker BOh, your brother.

Speaker CYou said Uncle Harry.

Speaker BYeah, that's. Oh, I was.

Speaker AMy brother.

Speaker BOkay. So your brother was wondering, was it because of, like, the stress of the wedding or.

Speaker AI think everything just. Yeah. I was so sick the first three months.

Speaker BOh, yeah. Of the pregnancy.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BYeah. That's hard.

Speaker AOh. So, like, just. That's why I don't even want to talk about it.

Speaker BThe wedding. So you guys haven't ever thought about doing a vowel renewal, have you? No. That'd be kind of fun, you know? Okay, here, just. Just go with me on it, because Chris and I have thought about doing it because there were parts of our wedding that we look back on and we don't like. Right. So then you think about it. A few years later, or however many years, you're like, we should just reclaim some of those moments and make them beautiful the way that we would have liked to have it. So, Grandma, you, for instance. Just an idea. Grandma could pick out. Or grandpa could pick out a pink dress and grandma could wear it and she would feel like she could have that moment anyway, and then. And then, you know, you invite the people you want. You have it in your backyard or you have it somewhere beautiful that you like.

Speaker CI've never, never ever thought about it.

Speaker BAnd then you just. You. You say to each other whatever you want to say, you grab your mic and you say it and everyone celebrates that. And that would be it.

Speaker AWonderful.

Speaker CAll such ideas.

Speaker BGrandpa, it's a thing. People do it.

Speaker CI know.

Speaker AI know. People do it.

Speaker CYeah, we know. A couple, they. They read that they renewed. They renew their marriage. Secret and sick. Frida. Oh, Remember? Sorry there.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BAnyways, anyway, so that was how. So that's how the wedding went. Hey, did you guys have. Did you have people in your wedding party? Was that a thing?

Speaker CNo, no, there was no such thing as that those days.

Speaker BSo it's just like vows and your pastor and you guys.

Speaker AAnd then we had it all recorded. Our wedding and then.

Speaker CDad, the report.

Speaker AYes. You sent it to Canada and then your brother threw it all in the garbage. What? Remember?

Speaker CI don't remember. Nothing.

Speaker AYes. Remember you said, don't ever erase this or get rid of it. And he was your brother fan. Yeah. He just threw all of it and the garbage in. There was nothing.

Speaker BThere's no proof, no nothing. No one took photos.

Speaker CThe photos we had that nobody wants to look at?

Speaker ANo, they were terrible.

Speaker BReally?

Speaker CYeah.

Speaker ABecause nobody had a camera.

Speaker CThey don't. They don't. Those days, they didn't have it the way they have it.

Speaker ANo.

Speaker BIt's very.

Speaker CSo complicated. Such a complicated.

Speaker AOh, I told you it was wedding to this one.

Speaker BYeah. It was not what you wanted. That.

Speaker AI'm sorry.

Speaker CThe wedding. The wedding doesn't matter. What. What matters after. Yeah, that's what matters. Okay.

Speaker BIt's true. Yeah.

Speaker ANo, but I always dreamt of a nice wedding.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AYeah. But that never happened. And it's okay.

Speaker BYeah. So then. So you guys got married then? Did you stay in Paraguay for a while?

Speaker CYeah, we stayed. We got married six months. We got married October 18th and then following February, we came back.

Speaker BSo then where did you stay when you were there? Did you have your own house?

Speaker AWe had our own house.

Speaker COr rented a place.

Speaker BOh, nice. Okay.

Speaker CFirst year ended the place and later on we moved to your mom bed. Old. Old house farm.

Speaker AYeah. Yeah.

Speaker COh, there I think we. Yeah, we lived for free.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CIt was your uncle's house. Yeah.

Speaker BOh, that's nice. Yeah. Did you. Did either of you work for those six months?

Speaker CYeah, I work. Yeah.

Speaker AOkay, nice.

Speaker BJust like with. On like family farms or.

Speaker ANo, no, no, I work.

Speaker CI work the same place where I worked before. Working together and machinery and big industry complex.

Speaker AAnd industry.

Speaker BOh, an industry complex.

Speaker AY.

Speaker BIs that.

Speaker CWell, that's. That's a place where people brought all their cotton, their peanuts and where they. They ship it out into the other countries. Okay.

Speaker BOh, and so what were you almost

Speaker Clike not a warehouse, but people brought on. I was working on. We had had a machine where they cleaned the cotton seed and made it ready for making cotton oil. Okay. Oh, that's what I did.

Speaker BSo you did the machine. I didn't know that actually. Yeah, that's cool.

Speaker AHe had a really good paying job.

Speaker BThat's awesome.

Speaker ABut yeah.

Speaker BAnd so then you guys. But you knew you were gonna go to Canada.

Speaker AYeah, yeah.

Speaker BAnd did you know kind of where you were gonna go already in Canada? You just were.

Speaker CYeah, we know. Come to Abbotsford.

Speaker BIt was gonna be Abbotsford for my

Speaker Cfamily and all that. Everybody else.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CSo if you came. Came here and stayed. The first couple. Two weeks. Two weeks with my mom and dad. Then after that we rented the basement. We lived there for two months and then we moved to Vancouver. We lived there for seven months and we moved back to Abbotsford. Because of work.

Speaker BYeah. So but you said you moved up here and you are pregnant with Eric already.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BBut were you three months?

Speaker ASix months.

Speaker BSix months.

Speaker AWow. My gosh.

Speaker BDid you like find. Did you didn't have a way to find out if it was a boy or a girl?

Speaker CNo, I would have not wanted.

Speaker BNo.

Speaker AAnd then in Vancouver, I found a doctor or von. A doctor. He spoke low German.

Speaker BNo way.

Speaker AThe hospital. Not a word of English. Not a word of English. So you were saying German.

Speaker BSo did you have any idea what they were saying?

Speaker ANo, no, I didn't. No idea? No.

Speaker BSo you just went there?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BAnd you were just. Did you just stay quiet or did you try to speak in German or.

Speaker AOne of his sisters came in one time.

Speaker BYeah.

Speaker AAnd I complained to her about. But stuff. I don't know. But what. And she said to the nurses, but they. Yeah, I don't know if they do anything on it or not.

Speaker BThat would be so hard. And you were like 21.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BYeah. That's like when I had Brielle, I was 21 and I can't imagine that being your first pregnancy in a new country where you don't speak the language.

Speaker AAnd then. And I had to go in to the hospital and they took some fluid out. Yeah, out of me, around the baby. I had too much fluid.

Speaker BOh, really?

Speaker ANever heard of it.

Speaker BNo way.

Speaker ANo idea what they were going to do. And a friend of mine came with me. We took the bus and went to the hospital and they did it and I went home.

Speaker CAnd.

Speaker AYeah. No idea what happened. That's so weird.

Speaker BThat was so bizarre. Okay.

Speaker AYeah. And the same thing. When your mom was born, we were still in Vancouver in Burnout,

Speaker Cbut we lived on Alfred Gladden Road. But we still had a doctor there.

Speaker ASame doctor.

Speaker CYeah.

Speaker ASo the same nurses and the same hospital.

Speaker CBurnaby Hospital.

Speaker AAnd couldn't speak a word of English.

Speaker CBut that time you could speak.

Speaker AOh no, I couldn't. I couldn't because your mom wouldn't latch on to me. And I begged the nurses and my sister in law, she said give her a pump or something. And they didn't do it. So the next day I went home and I had no issues with breastfeeding.

Speaker CLike.

Speaker AYeah, that all went good.

Speaker BEric and my mom are really close in age, aren't they?

Speaker CThirteen. Thirteen months.

Speaker AThirteen months, yeah.

Speaker CYeah. Well, me and my older sister are only 11 months apart.

Speaker BOh, wow. What?

Speaker AYeah, that's amazing.

Speaker BWow, that's very close together. So then.

Speaker AWow.

Speaker BYeah, that must have been. So where were you guys living when you had Eric and my mom?

Speaker AYour mom? Eric was born in Vancouver. In Vancouver.

Speaker BOkay.

Speaker CNot in Burnaby. Hunt. He was born.

Speaker AYeah, he was.

Speaker BHe lived in Vancouver, but born in Burnaby.

Speaker AOkay. Yes.

Speaker BAnd so. And then my mom was also born

Speaker Ain Burnaby, but he lived in at.

Speaker BOh, at that point you lived.

Speaker AYeah. Yeah.

Speaker BWow, that smiles. It is.

Speaker CNo,