NotesTranscript

Notes

Framing career reflections

Mon, 29 Jun 26

First Independent Job: Walter Froze and Fred Butt

• Walter Froze gave him his first independent framing job
  • Father worked for Froze, which is how the connection was made
  • Name sounds Mennonite; possibly spoke German, but unclear
• Froze never visited the job site; day-to-day contact was Fred Butt
• The interview that launched his career:
  • Froze asked if he knew how to lay a foundation
  • He said yes, and Froze said: “You’re on your way”
  • Never saw Walter Froze again after that

The Fourth House: One Foot Out of Square

• Discovered mid-afternoon that the entire house was a full foot out of square
  • Floor joists were already laid and ready for plywood
  • Brother Peter was on the crew that day
• Owner likely found out but never said a word; never spoke to him again after
• Made him physically ill, one of the worst moments of his career
• Key lesson learned: always measure for square twice, holding thumb firmly at the corner
  • Used a 58 ft tape; from then on, double-checked every time
  • “That’s the only big mistake I made in construction”

Career Colleagues: Abe Shirley and Bob Gladhill

• Abe Shirley: forms partner, described as a very nice, hard-working man
  • Fellow Mennonite from the same church; came from Paraguay (Colony Fernheim)
  • Has since passed away; was considerably older
• Bob Gladhill: last carpenter, a retired policeman
  • Younger than him, easy to work with, hard worker
  • “A lot of fun to work with”

Mennonite Colonies in Paraguay

• Six major German-speaking colonies in Paraguay
  • Colony Menno (his): settlers from Canada, German mixed with English words (e.g. “radiator,” “transmission”)
  • Colony Fernheim: settlers originally from Russia via Germany, German mixed with Russian words
  • Colony Nyland (“New Land”): Mennonites who fled Russia after the Bolsheviks took over in 1948
    • Bolsheviks took the men from farms; only women and families escaped
  • Also: Colony Volendam and Colony Friesland, near Asunción
• Colonies had little contact with each other historically, due to language differences
• Now almost fully integrated: intermarriage common, including with Hispanic Paraguayans
• Schools are now Spanish-only; Low German still spoken in the colonies
• 2026/2027 marks 100 years since the first Mennonites settled in Paraguay
  • A reunion/centennial celebration is planned for next June

Disputes with Engineers

• Frequently clashed with engineers over what he saw as over-engineered foundations
  • Main grievance: excessive rebar requirements that he felt were unnecessary
  • Challenged one engineer directly: “You don’t even believe it yourself”
  • Accused engineers of padding specs to earn more money
• Frustration rooted in 50 years of hands-on experience vs. engineers fresh out of school
  • “They come out of school, they haven’t got a clue”
  • Felt regulations came from Ottawa bureaucrats with no field experience
• Had many such arguments but chose not to go into further detail

Transcript

Speaker AAll right, we got some more here. Let's see. So this. This section is a little bit more about your framing career. So Walter froze. Who gave you your first job on your own? What kind of man was he? And did you ever see him again? No, you didn't.

Speaker BYou never saw him. Walter froze again. Sure you did.

Speaker CWell, yeah, at that time, when they were later on, I had never seen him after that. I have no idea what. He didn't. You know what? He never even came around to the job site. It was Fred Butt who took care of me. You know, it was for Walter froze. But I don't know exactly what happened there. It had to do with Walter froze. But when it came to looking after us, it was Fred Butt was his name to frame for him. Quite a few houses you Brad bought.

Speaker ASo what was Walter froze? Like, what kind of person was he?

Speaker CHe was. I think the name sounds like Mennonite. You know, it does, but I don't know. What if he spoke German or not. I have no idea.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CI know.

Speaker AWas he nice?

Speaker CI don't remember. Very little.

Speaker AVery little. He was just a person.

Speaker CYeah. He was Walter frozen. My dad. My dad worked for him quite a bit. And that's how. How I run into him, you know, so my dad.

Speaker ABut you didn't really talk to him or anything? Not really.

Speaker CYeah. When I went and when he. I met him and he asked me questions, you know, I wasn't sure if I was ready to go on my own.

Speaker AYeah. Yeah.

Speaker CI didn't know how to build stairs and so on and.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CThen he asked me, he said, do you know how to put the foundation? I said, yes, I do. He said, you're on your way.

Speaker AAnd that was that.

Speaker CThat was it. You know, I don't think I've ever seen him after that. I don't remember ever seeing him.

Speaker AOkay. Okay. Good to know.

Speaker CSomehow I had to do with. His name was Fred Butt.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CYou know, so I was dealing with him all the time, so I. I really don't know.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CWhat happened?

Speaker AWhat was. Okay, so the next one is the fourth house. A full foot out of square. Grandma laughs. Oh, my goodness. Okay. All right, take me back into that morning. What did you say to the crew and did the owner ever find out?

Speaker CHe probably did, but he never said anything.

Speaker AHe never said no.

Speaker CYeah, he probably found out, but. Because the way things are, the way things were out of square, if he didn't find out and then he wasn't a very smart man.

Speaker AHe didn't know. He didn't care.

Speaker BNo, he probably never found out.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker BAt least he didn't say anything.

Speaker CHe didn't say anything. And I never. After that house, I never talked to him either.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker BThat was sickening.

Speaker AReally.

Speaker CThat was enough sickness that I got altered because of that.

Speaker BOh, yeah.

Speaker AOh, yeah. That's not good. That was a bad time. Oh, dear.

Speaker CStarting my career, Courtney, was not easy.

Speaker ASo what did you say to the crew? Did you say anything to them?

Speaker CNo. Well, my brother Peter was working for me that time, and I realized when we start framing, something was wrong. And this was about 2:00 in the afternoon, and all of a sudden we had a floor dress on, ready for plywood. And I said, we ought to start measuring now. What's going on? And I'm. We found out the whole house was one foot of a square.

Speaker AThat's a lot.

Speaker BThat's a lot. That's. That's the.

Speaker CThat's the only big mistake I made. Construction, you know?

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BThe first and the last one.

Speaker CSee, when you do build a footing, you have a big long tape measure and then you. You measure across, see if it's square. The footing is square.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CAnd I think it was just because too much in a hurry. From there on, when me measured for square, like this way, I would hold my thumb on the number. It was 58ft. I held my thumb there. Now we go the other way. I made sure that the thumb was at the right corner. From there on, we would always measure a couple of times to make sure it was square. So it was a big learning lesson for me.

Speaker AYeah, yeah. But that's good though.

Speaker CThat I just couldn't. Didn't trust my eyes.

Speaker ARight. But you've learned from it and that was like that.

Speaker CDid I ever learn from it?

Speaker AYeah. That's good.

Speaker BEspecially as your own mistakes.

Speaker CRight.

Speaker AEspecially as a leader. Like you had a crew and it's like, okay.

Speaker CNo, when I found out, I was literally sick.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker BThen I remember in the evening, me and him, we went back to the job site and he told me.

Speaker AOh.

Speaker BOh, it was.

Speaker CThat was awful.

Speaker ATerrible.

Speaker CThat's something I don't.

Speaker AOkay, we'll move on to the next one. We'll forget that one. Okay. Abe, or I think that's Abe Shirley. Maybe your. Your forms partner where the quote was bang, bang, bang. Never, never a word. Who was he? And are you still in touch?

Speaker CBut that if you're link, you say, I think so.

Speaker AYour form's partner.

Speaker CYeah, yeah, yeah. He passed away already.

Speaker AOh, he passed away. Okay.

Speaker CHe Was quite a bit older than I am too.

Speaker ABut who was he?

Speaker CHe was another Mennonite.

Speaker AOh, just like a friend.

Speaker BYeah, Very nice guy.

Speaker CPeople went to the same church, you know, Same church.

Speaker AOkay, cool.

Speaker CHe came from Paraguay too.

Speaker AOh, he did? Not from the same colony or.

Speaker CNo, no, from a different colony.

Speaker ADifferent. Okay, but you. So you did.

Speaker CFrom the colonies was called Faring Fernheim. See, it was like this. El Drailer.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CThis is where the. The colony Mena. Colony where we were. Okay.

Speaker AOkay, so you're that 1930.

Speaker CLots of people came from Germany, from over Russia. First they came here and they settled

Speaker Ahere next to you.

Speaker CYeah, that was called the colony Fernheim.

Speaker AOh, so they were.

Speaker CThose people originally came out of Russia.

Speaker ASo they came from Russia to Germany. To Germany.

Speaker CAnd then to 1948 when the Bolshevik had taken over in Russia. A lot of Mennonites flee there. So then came another group to the Chaco. Here they settled here. They call Colony Nyland.

Speaker AOh, okay.

Speaker CNew land, you know, Called Nyland, we call it in German. Okay, they settled here. Okay, Those are one. The one to flee to Russia. A lot of people came. Only the women came. Because that time, what happened in Russia, The Bolshevik, they went to farmers and pick up the men and took them. Then they never saw the families. That's what the Bolshevik did.

Speaker AOkay, really?

Speaker CSo they came, but they come. So now this is Paraguay. Okay. And here's. Here's Asadja, the big capital city. From here, that way and that way there was another big colony with same people. One was called Colony Volendam and one was called Colony Friesland. So there were big six German colonies in Paraguay.

Speaker AOkay, so they're kind of like communities, kind of like villages.

Speaker CYeah, like a big farm community.

Speaker ASo then how often would you go into a different one?

Speaker CHardly ever.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CBecause with the first number of years, we had different speaking. See, they were German and we were German. Yeah, but they came from Russia. They had so many Russian words in their German. And we were from Canada. We had so many English words in our German. Okay, for instance, radiator. That's English, yes. And low German. That's wota cela. But we would never say. We say radiator or transmission. That's English. And Germans reclata. Well, nobody ever talked about the regulata. That's a transmission. See, that's how a lot of people had the English words in their German these days. It's different. We were. Used to be. Had nothing to do each other with the colonies. Now it's all the Same all mixed up.

Speaker AAnd then you can always be friends.

Speaker CAnd it's just like all one colony.

Speaker AYeah. Yeah. That's cool.

Speaker CThey marry each other, you know. And that's all that says.

Speaker AThat's kind of cool, isn't it?

Speaker CThat's before if somebody would marry from here to there. That was very, very, very odd.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CBecause we had no communication with those people.

Speaker ABut you're right next to each other.

Speaker CSlowly and slowly the young people start getting together now. Everything. Everything's just.

Speaker AIt's different.

Speaker CIt's like just one.

Speaker AWhat do you think of that? Do you like it how it is?

Speaker CIt's just like here, you know. Everything was. Everything was mixed. Now they married also people. German people marry Hispanic people. That just never happened. Now I do, you know, because everything is Spanish there now. Well, except the colony. Most people speak still loom. And the schools are all Spanish only now.

Speaker AOkay, okay.

Speaker CSo it's totally different there now. Totally different.

Speaker ADifferent. Wow.

Speaker CThat's now almost 100 years. That's 100 years ago that the first Maronites move there. This will be. It's this, this year 100 years. They go and celebrate. Next year in June, they go celebrate. Have a.

Speaker ALike a reunion.

Speaker CYeah, reunion, celebration, union. 100 years, you know.

Speaker AThat's cool. That's very cool. Maybe you'll get to go.

Speaker CNo, I won't go.

Speaker ANo, you won't go. Okay. All right. Okay. I have another question if you're ready. The retired policeman, who is your last carpenter? What was his name and what made him good?

Speaker CHis name was Bob Gladhill.

Speaker ABob Gladhill. Yeah. Okay. Was he good?

Speaker COh, yeah, he was a good guy. Yeah. It was a lot of fun to work with him. Yeah.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CHe was a hard working man. Yeah.

Speaker AYeah. Okay. Was he like around your age or.

Speaker CNo, he was younger. Younger. He was quite younger than I am, I would say. I don't know how much younger, but he was a bit younger. I know that.

Speaker AYeah. He was easy to get along with.

Speaker COh yeah, no problem.

Speaker AThat's good. That's good. Okay. The engineers you told where to go. Give me one of those run ins in full.

Speaker CWell, what is that? It's didn't get this.

Speaker AThis is something to do with your framing career. The engine. Okay, we'll pause.

Speaker CCome back from here on now.

Speaker AGo to dad. Right now. Go to dad. Lincoln, actually come here. It's makeup, isn't it? Is it makeup? Don't do that. That freaked me out. Lincoln and Brielle. You totally got me. We're pranking the people, when they come. Wow, I'm impressed. Okay, Okay. I just have to ask Opal a question. I'm trying to figure this one out. It says something about there's a story where the engineers that you told where to go. Do you remember that story?

Speaker CYeah, I've done that. Number 10. Yeah.

Speaker ASo can you give me a memory of one of those run ins where you had to tell them that. Is there a specific time I had

Speaker Cto do with putting a rebar into foundations where I thought it was absolutely stupid, unnecessary. Okay.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CAnd you know, they.

Speaker ASo you told them where to go?

Speaker CThey made me look like I don't knew nothing.

Speaker AOkay, so they're like your crew, kind of. But they're engineers.

Speaker CYeah, they're engineers, you know.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CThey engineer like houses, like, like this one here. They engineered my foundation, you see, and they put down what I should put in there and how many rebar I should put in there. That's. That's what call engineers. There are beams, like big beams and trusses. It's all engineered. Okay. So it's so all, to my opinion, so all overdone, you know. Well, one engineer, I told the way you're at, what you're doing is just to cut that, you can get more money in your pocket.

Speaker ASo you told him that.

Speaker CSee, there was like this, there was a wall like this.

Speaker AThere's a wall, cement wall.

Speaker CI asked him, why do I put so much rebar? Oh, because of tipping over. So which way? Where will the tip of over? Yeah, because the dirt goes down that way. There's no pressure from the other side. Tell me where, where it'll go and tip. Yeah, I said, you don't even believe it yourself. So we'll tip over, I said, just because you can a little bit more money in your pocket.

Speaker AOkay.

Speaker CI said, downright stupid.

Speaker AYeah. So then you were telling him where to go.

Speaker CYeah, yeah, I told, I told him what nonsense was, you know.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CSo I had a lot of arguments, but I don't want to go into detail.

Speaker AOkay, well, that's good because we just finished up that whole section. So you did it. You moved on from that.

Speaker CEngineers these days, they treated me like if I don't know nothing.

Speaker AThat's hard. That's really hard. I've been in a situation too.

Speaker C50 years experience, you know.

Speaker AYeah.

Speaker CAnd those guys, they, they come out of school, they haven't got a guard, they haven't got a clue.

Speaker ASo you have to live the experience.

Speaker CBut they do what, what they're told from the government. It comes all from the government.

Speaker AYeah. Yeah.

Speaker CYou know for sure there's people in Ottawa or wherever, they sit in an office and they trying to figure things out. They haven't got a clue what's going on there.

Speaker AYeah, okay, Grandma.

Speaker C24th.

Speaker BThe guys go.